day in negative territory as did the s&p 500. that does it for me tonight. thanks for being with us. see you tomorrow. follow me on twitter and google plus. "fast money" begins now. it's that time of year to give thanks, but ben bernanke burned the turkey. >> uncertainty about how the fiscal cliff, the raising of the debt limit and the longer term budget situation will be addressed appears already to be affecting spending conditions and could contribute to the financial markets with adverse effects on the economy. >> regulators served up the yams cold. >> today another accused of insider trading. the charges unsealed today describe cheating, coming and going. first on the long side and then on the short side. on a scale that has really no historical precedent.

>> and hp overcooked the books. >> has been referred to the s.e.c. and the serious fraud office in the uk. >> this is no norman rockwell painting, people. only the "fast money" gang can bring us together. let's get to it. "fast money" starts now. live from the nasdaq market site in new york city's times square i'm melissa lee. here are tonight's top three trades. beware of value traps. jim chenos called hp the ultimate value trap and that was a good bet. tonight the top traps to avoid. from dollar stores to gymboree, how companies are setting up for black friday. energy under fire. we could use a pick me up from time to time but energy drinks are taking a hit on health concerns. find out about an energy alternative making in roads in

the multi billion dollar business. let's get to the tech wreck, accounting worries for hp as they take on the $8.8 billion charge on the autonomy deal dragging down old and new tech today. what do you make of this? some people said there are signs of a bottom in place. now it's reversing again. >> whatever bottom people are looking at in tech i'm not seeing it. the issue has been tech, will be tech and going forward from a growth and earnings perspective will continue to be tech if the breakdowns continue. look at the negative diver jens. worst performer, tech. the bigger issue here, apple is in crash mode. they tried to recover. crash being down 20% or more, just over 20% off the september high. tech is down 11.5 since september, a big draw down to worry about regardless of the view of the cliff. >> what do you make of the move in apple today? >> draw down mode isn't good in

a name like apple. we have been talking about it so lochbl long. there is so much performance. when you have five weeks left in the year and the stock has amassed poor performance for 2012 it's a difficult situation. apple's action down less than 1% after being up 7.25% yesterday. it's pretty good in a lot of ways. you need to see it stabilize here. doc and i were talking about options strategies we used to take premium out of this thing. we have a day and a half between now and friday that the markets will be closed. option premiums are going to melt. that's his trade. i'm quoting it here. apple needs to hang in here a little bit. if you do it you set up for a decent rally next week to continue this thing. 600 is the top though. >> what's the trade? >> we were looking at -- i pinged dan and said what do you think of this? selling the straddle in the near term. the one that expires friday, you lose almost 80% of the value

over the next couple of days of the straddle. you don't have trading basically in two of the days. day and a half. by the next week, straddle against it at the same strikes. that gives you time working in your favor big time. if we sit to keith's point and jostle around the 20% down you make a lot of money on the trade over a couple of days. dan modified the trade slightly and bought a time spreader, a calendar -- >> do you think it will move, doc? was that a one-day wonder? >> i think it will h continue to move up, to your point. it will move up throughout the remainder of the year and be closer to 600 by year end. >> i think the stock will go closer to 500. if you look at it, it's binary. it will go up a lot or down a lot. this will determine a lot about the market. this is beta where a lot of people live, feel compelled to buy apple because it's down. when something is crashing i let it crash.

>> talk about hewlett-packard and something's crashing. >> nice segue. >> in terms of the write down what's your take on this and at what point would you as a value investor even consider getting into hewlett-packard? >> you know as a value investor the numbers are compelling if you were to believe the numbers. i don't think one can have certainty with what the numbers are. i can't imagine we have seen the end of it. it's shocking to me that lynch was just on "closing bell." i'm surprised he doesn't have a lawyer all over him telling him not to say a word, regardless of whatever the underlying situation was. this is very bad. it puts the aqua tech administration in the pan theen of value destroyers. we were just joking in the green room how much per day did they cost shareholders here? they are in disarray over there

and the only thing going for it is the multiple of something is cheap. i'm not sure what it is though. >> mike lynch, the founder of autonomy interviewed by maria moments ago said they think there's been significant mismanagement at hp and they delivered correct information to the auditor essentially saying it wasn't me. hp mismanaged this thing and we are seeing this huge write-down at this point. >> this company made a couple sizable acquisitions in the last ten years. they are getting to a point where the balance sheet is impaired. to me, it's funny to talk about value. there's got to be value more from a break-up. that's what they wanted to do when they first came in. he wanted to break the company up. in a lot of ways the deal sunk the company. can you buy it as aville -- >> no, no. you can't. with this -- you know, i don't know if it's fraud or not. you can't step in with this uncertainty. >> sell first, ask questions later. >> stick around.

we have much more on today's tech troubles and the hewlett-packard story. dan niles of alpha one capital partners will tell us which names in technology he's currently short. not hewlett-packard but others. meantime, bernanke saying the fed lack it is tools to help the economy whether the impact of a fiscal cliff if congress doesn't reach a deal. we asked the question will the fed twist once again. keith, what does the treasury market tell us? >> i think for bernanke to move the dial he needs to double and triple the monthly bond buying program. the size of the fed's balance sheet now to basically get the slope of the line right which is increasing the balance sheet he's got to bring a ton back to the marketplace. i think today he said, i'm out of bullets. unless i missed what he said, that's what the market is telling you. >> maybe he's not. the next guest say it is fed will embark on more twists. we'll see it in december. joe lavornia of deutsche bank

joins us. >> i thought bernanke was radical. keith -- i can't even describe it. i'm at a loss for wordses. >> qe-4 in december. >> they will replace twist with purchases. it will be $40 billion, $45 billion in size. that will be done as an insurance policy. none of it will work. rates aren't the issue. credit spreads are narrow. companies can borrow. the fed nits infinite wisdom are looking at models and they have to do more. >> an insurance policy against the fiscal cliff? they are trying to do a stop gap? they will embark on monetary policy to plug the gap. >> they're going to treat the expiration of twist perhaps as a mild tightening of financial conditions if they don't do more. in some sense they are hostage to the treasury market. if you look at markets and how they are behaving to me it's not

a rate story. it's a lack of confidence. in many ways the fed has indirectly hurt confidence by some of the actions. it doesn't matter. they will still pursue more qe. >> i think the radical view at the beginning of the year would be the more the fed does the more growth slows. that was my view and radical can be right. do you think more of more of more is even slower growth? do you think you could drop to half a percent growth by 2013 or not? >> look, if you have a big commodity move, yes. qe-2 hurt growth. i think the fed has been remiss in not admitting that, taking any responsibility. they look at qe as, through the i prism of improving financial conditions. equities went through september 14th qe policy. so, again, unless the fed is buying s&ps the market will go where the outlook and growth are. what happens is the more qe they do, the less confidence

businesses in the outlook. in some ways the worse equities do. if you look at the flous and you know this. the inflows in bonds have been tremendous. investors feel a free put. the fed is buying it. the irony is if rates were allowed to rise and it went to two and a half percent you would get more of what the fed is trying to accomplish. again this is the fed's view, not mine. the committee is now bought into bernanke's view of the world. >> in the coming weeks and months as we get economic data will we see the cliff already reflected in that data? how much of the impact of the cliff is already on businesses in the data? >> i think as the wall street journal highlighted earlier in the week you have seen business confidence deteriorate, durable spending, big ticket ex-cap items. some is europe. it's already happening. on the consumer side they are beating to a different drum. if we go off the cliff we'll have problems because the consumer isn't prepared.

our baseline case is we'll avoid most of the cliff. there will be deal to make a deal next year. growth will continue. >> okay. joe, we'll leave it there. thanks for coming by. >> thanks for having me. >> great thanksgiving. joe lavorgna of deutsche bank. our next guest has a good idea how many nails are in the coffin of the pc business. >> you are seeing a trend to another area dominated by tablets and smart phones. dell and hp don't have good offerings in that area. intel and microsoft, too. >> coming up, dan niles helping us make sense of today's tech wreck and naming names on which of the names you should be shorting. later, cheers and jeers. it's a tale of two calls later in the show. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 when i'm trading, i'm totally focused.

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one of the big issues was autonomy in london on the short side a year ago. hewlett-packard bought the company for $11 billion and the accounting was absolutely dreadful. a disaster. they did almost no due diligence on the deal. it closed quickly. oracle was shown the deal and stopped. within months people left. >> jim chenos called it the ultimate value trap. the stock is down 38% since the call. dropped to a 12-year low. the company announcing an $8.8 billion charge on the deal. can hp bounce back? our next guest is a bear. dan niles from alpha one capital

partners, former pc analyst partner. dan, good to speak with you. >> nice to be on. >> what's your take on hp? at what point would you consider investing in hewlett-packard at this point? it reaches a low and at some point there is value there. no? not at all? >> here's the thing. how many guests have you had on the show telling you to buy hp because it's a good value? the stock just keeps going lower. you could have said this about nokia, rim. the problem people confuse is the valuation, quote/unquote, is based on future earnings. if future earnings are worse than people think then the value can continue to erode. at some point, you know, could a company get bought out? sure, if you're small like a rim or something like that. but with the hewlett-packard you're still talking about tens

of billions in market cap. to buy a company praying for something is just not a good investment strategy. that's why you have seen the stock get hammered again today. you have people there thinking how much worse could it get and the problem is the pc industry is in secular decline. it's probably going to decline for the next several years. so this is not a name you want to buy. >> right. you're short at this point, dan, and correct me if i'm wrong. intel, dell and microsoft on the same thesis? >> yeah. it pain mess to say it. these were name as decade ago that were the names you absolutely, podsly wanted to be long. when the pc was the way you got on the internet. these were stocks that enabled you to do that. today that's all been replaced by the move to smartphones and tablets. it's easy to forget the trends are new. apple only launched the iphone in 2007. the ipad didn't exist until

2010. so two years ago. if you look at the volumes today, the tablet market has gone from zero to 100 million units this year. smartphones have gone to 700 million units this year. pcs will do maybe 360 million units. this ises the first decline in pc shipments since 2001 on a yearly basis. pc shipments didn't even decline in 2008 or 2009 when things were bad. it gives you an idea of how ugly things are for the pc industry. >> here's a question for you. name some names losing the pc-centric world battle. when i try to find names with growth out there, double digit earnings in revenue growth that traded a reasonable price. i come up with apple, qualcomm, ebay, google, maybe emc. where do you get growth at a reasonable price in technology

now? it seems like if you want that parabolic growth we saw in apple and that never traded at a ridiculous valuation you have to look at sales force or amazon. i don't want to go there. what do you say to people who want to find the next 10% earner at a reasonable valuation? >> you brought up some of the names we like. apple is one of those we bought recently because they missed the last two quarters. investors are starting to figure out where numbers make sense. qualcomm has a bigger market cap than intel now. there is a smaller company called avago that sells into fast growers. you brought up ebay. it's one where they are partnering with companies like apple. you can go on ebay. apple has a place where you can buy refurbished apple products. it's a small test case but they are partnering with the biggest

companies in the world. they don't compete with them like amazon. i think cisco where they are providing the backbone for all the data that we are downloading is another interesting one at a good price. a lot of the telcom equipment vendors out there. honestly, facebook is one we owned into the last earnings print. they are starting to monetize mobile. they didn't have mobile revenues in june. they just started a mobile strategy. as you point out there are other names you can look at. a lot of the trends will last for a long time. i mean, add networks on mobile. millennium media is one we like. people need to think differently, as you pointed out. >> dan, it's karen. let me go back to the train wreck of hp today. when they have the 8.8 billion dollar write-down. could this be some sort of screen for them in the future to improve earnings in the future

by reversing write-down? >> i don't think so. if you think back to when the deal got announced it made no sense even then. what i mean by that is they acquired a company with less than a billion dollars in revenue. they were doing $100 billion at the time. they acquired less than 1% of revenue for more than 15% of the market cap. they paid about $11 billion for it. this was an entity that was shopped around before. then they blew all the balance sheet cash on it. it didn't make a lot of sense at the time. now you look back on it and go, it's a worse acquisition than we thought it was back then. i would love to believe they could reverse engineer it, make it better. but the base business in autonomy has been bad for several quarters. they may need to break things apart but i don't think you will

get an accounting benefit. >> always good to speak with you, dan. dan niles of alpha one capital partners. for those in the audience too young to remember him as the intel analyst on the street with lehman brothers he's now short intel, the company he knew in and out when intel was the stock to own. >> i wonder if we have viewers who don't remember lehman brothers? >> probably, sad to say. >> the death of ecs if you put an ipad with a keyboard it's a pc, folks. if you look at what people are doing here in the cloud space whether it's the vmware, emc plays or servers there is big iron being sold. this is not a dead story. it support it is tablet devices we have on the desk. >> mike, i want your take on hul hewlett-packard. i asked meg whitman about

tablets because she said that was one of the building blocks of the foundation of hewlett-packard over the next five years. i thought really, the tablet is your next big cutting edge innovation? >> they're chasing, aren't they? part of the justification was cloud. we were talking about cloud a year ago. they're trying to chase it. i'm trying to understand how to write down $8.8 billion on a balance sheet that probably only had $4 billion in assets when they acquired the business they took $276 million in charges related to the acquisition last year. before you know it they will write off $15 billion associated with the $11 billion acquisit n acquisition. it's ridiculous. >> this is what bad companies do. they reach for growth they see but don't understand. in the end it destructs value, erodes confidence in the equity. the overall trend is the cheap gets cheaper if you erode confidence. >> we'll take a break.

then we'll go around the horn. there is more than just one value trap out there, believe it or not. not just hewlett-packard. we'll get the traders' best and worst value traps. later on, with 34 days before christmas, retailers are fighting for your holiday season dollars. which one will come out on top? we have the read on retail with an industry insider. stick around. or that printing in color had to cost a fortune. nobody said an all-in-one had to be bulky.

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before the break we were talking about hp with james chenos called the ultimate value trap. we want our traders' takes on where the other value traps are. doc j, cliffs. >> iron ore is right there with steel which is out of favor. as this trades to another 52-week low today, a fresh one, i'm getting tempted at $30 a share. i know keith will tell me i'm nuts to go there. i haven't yet. but i like this one. despite the fact that the goldman downgrade took it down 12%. that's part of the reason i like it. >> you like to buy it. >> i would. i have not yet. >> right. i want to make it clear. >> i would love to see an even bigger flush than just to this level. >> okay.

karen, you're look at dell. >> looking at dell, yeah. so many metrics that set up great for the value proposition. however, net cash, great balance sheet. big sales. all of that. they are smack dab in the middle. it's in such flux i wouldn't touch it. >> once upon a time hewlett-packard came out with an earnings report suggesting trade of some sort and you would see dell higher. now everybody is losing share. there is no respite for anybody here. no one is buying these things. keith, cat. >> valuation, to be clear, is not a catalyst. if that's your catalyst, stop right there. with cat people are thinking nine to ten bucks. that won't happen. think 20% to 30% lower on earnings. we have a stock that looks relatively expensive. you have to deal with the ongoing catalyst that the management team has to come to jesus guiding down numbers. this is the issue with value traps. it will be.

a short seller like me likes it when people call a stock cheap. >> dan, microsoft. >> microsoft fits in. to me this stock was up 27% at some point in this year alone. it's practically unchanged. we have a fortress balance sheet that trades at nine times earnings. 3.5% dividend. paid special dividends back. this company destroys shareholder value. they wrote down almost the entire acquisition price of aquantityive. there is no innovation here. you have to know why you are buying a stock like microsoft. valuation is not a catalyst. you have to find product cycles. i think this thing goes probably to $20 over the next couple of years. >> let's hit another big mover in today's session. rough day. the stock fell 4% after a research group published a

report claiming the teas contain pesticides in amounts that exceed u.s. regulatory limits. remember, this company was bought by starbucks for not -- a premium, but it was relatively small acquisition for the size of starbucks. what are traders doing on this? >> they are trading a lot of options. traded over 40 times. the average daily volume, the most active were the december 15 puts which were trading for an average price of 50 cents. the important thing here is starbucks is trying to close this acquisition supposedly going to close before the end of the year at 15.5 buck as share. why are people buying 15 strike puts for 50 cents when the stock will be below 14.5 in 30 days? they are betting starbucks might walk away. i don't know that it will happen. i have looked at the report. makes you wonder about your tea. >> mike, you read through the report and came up with interesting stats in terms of

you looked at where the tea comes from around the world. >> yes. it's interesting. of course the important thing to remember is that tea is something we import. so you think where do we import it from. the tea is grown in china, india, skroori lanka, places li that. it becomes easy to imagine that maybe places like that, they may not have the same kinds of codes we would hope for. the important thing is teavana was affirming the teas were pesticide free. they passed strict tests in the e.u. and the united states. now, of course, we are looking at this. i think obviously they are looking to verify the findings in this report. i don't know that it's been done. if it was true it seems believable. >> not much movement on starbucks on this move. let's hit pops and drops and movers you missed today. a drop for best buy down 13% karen? >> we highlighted it yesterday in fact or fiction.

>> fiction. >> not worth it. >> drop for intel down 3%. dan? >> down 3.5%. more than that at one point. the hewlett-packard guidance was a disaster. don't buy it for the 4.5% yield. there are structural issues here. >> storm ruger up. >> both smith & wesson and ruger were down. they announced the special dividend that's coming out the first week in december. it's another fiscal cliff play. i paid attention when the stock was up almost $3. >> pop here for pulte. >> housing e starts are the only good thing on my screen. the group leading was the west in the market today. >> pop for expedia. mike? >> they got upgraded to equal weight from barclays. it's close to fairly valued. maybe only 5% to the upside at

most. i don't necessarily think we follow into it. >> we have a drop here for the surface. microsoft's tablet got a big name endorsement from oprah winfrey when she tweeted she's already bought 12 for christmas gifts. she called it one of her favorite things, the branding sure to boost any product's popularity. oprah sent the tweet out to 14 million followers using an ipad. ouch. >> i don't want to be on her christmas list. >> why? >> surface? really? >> as if we haven't beaten up on microsoft enough. up next, a deeper dive into the world of hedge funds. what trades got the smart money shaking their heads this year? plus the balt for black friday is on. we have an early read on the retailers poised to come out on top. dvr operates shopping centers and we are taking a retail detail with the ceo next.

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welcome back. we are watching sales force.com. it beat on the third quarter.

a penny better than expectations. revenue also bert. it set the revenue for fiscal 2014 at 3.8 to 3.85 billion. stock moving higher. company says the shift to annual billing is boosting deferred revenue but what's interesting is the deferred revenue rate, growth rate has declined. it was 47% of the first quarter. they said it a had a minor impact from superstorm sandy. >> thank thanks for that. we are seeing it higher in the after hours section for crm. dan? >> the expectations were high. the options market implied a 7.5% move. it's up a couple percent or so. at the end of the day expectations were high given the valuation but with that deferred revenue number it's something as

a growth investor you have to be careful about. this company has its day of reckoning coming. i don't know when. you have to be careful stepping in front of it. >> black friday, the day that kicks off the holiday shopping frenzy. retailers are gearing up for door buster sales. let's bring in daniel hurwitz of ddr specializing in what's known as the power center. commonly known as strip malls, shopping centers. it's good to see you. black friday, we are seeing already people line up. is that what you have been noticing that people are still lining up outside in tents waiting for the big deals? >> we are seeing it. we're surprised. black friday is a ways away. we are having a lot of black friday door busters move forward to thursday this year. it will be interesting to see what the impact of the thursday sales have on friday and whether friday will be as big as we expect or whether thursday will siphon off sales prematurity.

>> something jumped out at me in the annual report. your top tenants have margins higher than amazon which was shocking to me. i was wondering even during a season where there is much more promotion does it stand up? seasonally, does it hold? >> it does. it's not hard to have higher margins in amazon. they have none. over zero is an easy target to get to. most of the mark downs you would hope are planned for the holiday season. as long as retailers are hitting the planned mark downs they will be able to maintain margins. we look for how severe and how early we see more extensive mark downs and what the inventory levels are in stores. that will tell us how the holiday season is going. >> i have a question. do shoppers plan to spend x and they are induced to spend something more than that whether it's through door buster or black friday or sales, whatever

it is. or do they stick to whatever the plan is? >> it's been our thought they are induced because in the united states we really don't need anything. our closets are full. we build bigger kitchens yet we go out for dinner more. bigger houses with bigger closets and fill those as well. no one needs anything. we need incentives to shop. that's what happens at the holiday season better than any time during the year. >> a lot of the top tenants are retailers that have done well. walmart, for one. bed, bath and beyond and kohl's, for instance. what's your take on jc penney? what are they getting wrong here? >> jc penney is a sad story. it's just another example of a management team trying to re-educate the consumer and failing. everyone thought jc penney needed a facelift or a bypass

but it didn't need a heart transplant. that's what they have been trying to do and the consumer has rejected the efforts so far. it's been a sad story for the industry. it's not good for retail. >> is it beyond hope in your view? >> i don't know if it's beyond hope. it's a question of how much patience the consumer has, investors have in this management strategy. right now when you're down 26% over last quarter headed into the busiest and season. there is no optimism it will get better. at what point do you do reverse strategy and admit defeat? >> speaking of retailers under siege, best buy usually kicks off the conversation of the death of the big box retailer. in reality, the big box footprint is in short supply. you are finding you can't find big boxes though so many are allegedly dying. >> there are very few dying. there are two, three, four

looking to replace whichever ones are on life support. from our perspective we have a portfolio of prime assets over 95% lease. if we were to get best buy back to mark it to market with demand outstripping supply would be tremendous for us. >> it would be a good thing to reduce. >> it's never good to see retailers in trouble. it brings attention to the sector. but in the long run we would make money on it. >> always good to see you. ceo of ddr. up next, an energy drink company escaping controversy and attracting celebrities out there. up next, we talk to the ceo of pure growth partners about how sk energy is capitalizing on the troubles of competitors. all while giving back to those in need. stick around. well, if it isn't mr. margin. mr. margin? don't be modest, bob. you found a better way to pack a bowling ball. that was ups. and who called ups? you did, bob.

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they have teachers... ...with a deeper knowledge of their subjects. as a result, their students achieve at a higher level. let's develop more stars in education. let's invest in our teachers... ...so they can inspire our students. let's solve this. it's been a rough 2012 for hedge fund managers. just 13% are beating the s&p 500 year to date. 20% of all are in the red this year according to a new report from kblax. check out the disconnect in the chart. as of november 2 the average hedge fund up 6% this year.

the average mutual fund has doubled that and the s&p 500 is higher. what have hedge funds been betting on in consumer discretionary, you till ace seasoned energy. consumer staples is the largest under weight. why is the big money losing money? that's the key question for investors paying. goldman sachs says if they look at the vip stocks that vip basket has been outperforming the average hedge fund performance which would imply mismanagement maybe on the short side of the trade for a lot of positions. >> there are a couple of things going on. hedge funds are too long, too much like mutual funds. coming into the fourth quarter you had a net long position. in other words you had little shorts and lots of long. you get a draw down and that perpetuates the performance problem. what we have learned in the last five years is hedge funds are bad at hedging. another big issue. that's the reason why short interest is so low. if you look at the short

interest data we do a composite data sereries on this. short action hit the lowest level it's seen since april. people weren't allowed to short the market given performance anxiety. that's a big issue. this is the final point if you need another one that there are too many hedge funds. you have industry chasing performance long and short side and they are getting whipped around. >> connect the dots for me. we have hedge funds under performing the markets and we have seen a down dravt in marks. can we assume that was driven by redemption selling, hedge funds girding themselves or inves tors wanting money back because they haven't seen the returns they are paying for? >> first you have redemption and people front running other redemptions. >> right. >> the minute you see a hedge fund say i'm out or i'm going to a family office. this is perverse and sad but it's what happens. people pull out the list and start shooting at that guy's list or her list.

people have anxiety about the situation when performance issues are real and draw downs on going. you will have the whole situation turning into a little bit of a snow ball, unfortunately. >> the top holding of hedge funds is apple. >> that's a dangerous game. anybody with a brain, if they knew they would face it they would sell before they announced that. it's dangerous. >> energy drinks are a multi-million dollar industry but they are coming under fire. the fda received reports of deaths and injuriy possibly related to the beverages. to name a few, joan rivers, d.j. paulyd and 50 cent are celebrity supporters. i would imagine in this industry you want to differentiate yourself from the likes of red

bull, monster and 5 hour energy. >> sure. if you copy you will never win. we went in and had a different ingredient panels. vitamin a, b-6, 12, e, c, antioxidants, green tea, acai and left out things like taurine which is banned in a number of countries. the thesis seems sound at this stage. we welcome the fda's guidance on regulating the category. we don't believe kids under 16 should be drinking this product. >> you make it clear on your website that the fda has not confirmed the claims you are making and that you're not marketing to 16-year-olds. we should note for people unfamiliar synthetic taurine is the ingredient that's come under

fire. at this point caffeine is the common link here. >> it's a common link. a lot of our competitors use a synthetic caffeine. we use natural coffee beans for ours. it's more expensive but the body absorbs natural caffeine as opposed to synthetic caffeine. that's different for us. >> how much caffeine is in one? >> sure. >> i looked at the ingredient label and i couldn't find it. >> in our run we did this week we have gone on the front foot and listed our caffeine levels. there are 210 milligrams. in comparison to a starbucks 12-ounce coffee there are 330 milligrams of caffeine versus 210 in our energy shot. >> i loved you in "skyfall" by the way. when you think about this product category, how big could it be for you? >> we think this product is probably better because it's

more portable and doesn't need refrigeration compared to an energy drink. the category could be as big as energy drinks. our understanding is the category is around $7 billion in the u.s. alone on energy crindr. the shot market will be $2 billion. it's been growing between 20% and 25% per annum. >> are you making money? you have celebrity endorsers. are they paid? >> my partner curtis "50 cent" jackson put his money where his mouth is. he and i put a lot of dollars on the table and invested in it. the nice thing is celebrities have either got on board because they believe in the cause around feeding a child with every one we sell. they also like the energy hit because it is more natural and it works. >> very diverse group of celebrities here. whether sex, age or whatnot. joan rivers to d.j. pauly d.

>> it goes back to when you have a platform where it's around feeding kids in need. that's working for us well. >> right. >> as a platform the other thing is the more the product has got more, you know, less of the bad stuff and more environment oriented. >> monster beverage was the hot thing and the stock was called hanson natural. a lot of people said coca-cola should buy them. are you for sale? >> we are a long way -- >> could you use the muscle of a bigger marketing department? >> i think it's too early to talk about the sale. we're excited about the mission. we have a great celebrity and share registry behind us. we want to take our time, build something great. this is to do something meaningful. >> chris, hope you will come back. >> thank you.

>> chris clark of sk. there is at least one hedge fund betting on a groupon turn around. we are giving you the tweets on this battered down stock next.

don't go anywhere. cramer has an exclusive tonight you won't want to miss. the ceo cloud computing king cloud force talks. could sales force give it a boost? stick around, cramer has answers. meantime, we have your first move tomorrow when we come back. >> it's the season for holiday shopping and one retailer could be a bargain. plus a play to send your portfolio sky high. stick around, "mad money" is next. y, it's not just about who lives in the white house, it's about who lives in the yellow house, the green, and the apartment house, too. today we not only honor the oval office, but we honor the cubicle, and the home office as well. because today it's about all of us. and no matter who you are, you're the commander-in-chief of your own life. ♪ you're the commander-in-chief of your own life.

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>> announcer: final trade is sponsored by interactive brokers. >> time for the final trade. mike? >> if hewlett-packard is a value trap so is lexmark. stay say way. >> not as investment but as a trade jc penney. i want to buy a little stock. i want exposure in an over done situation. 40% short interest. maybe good news in december. >> keith? >> looking for broken stocks that were green today to short. amazon. >> karen? >> i have a psa for you young kids. don't fall into the hp value trap. stay in school. >> the more you know. john? >> another psa, you kids out there. good healthy drinks, all you can get of them. no. jdsu. i was buying march calls in it today. the stock's 50% off the highs and i lik